Happy new year and new mission up!

[Morse]

Ya, but in WW2 you're talking about massive armies that are prone to field promotion due to officer death. The USCM is rediculously undermanned, and its not terribly frequent for us to see field promotion I don't think. - Just keeping the discussion going, personally I've never aspired for higher the corporal.

[Quinn]

That and the USCM uses far smaller squads than normal. I mean, who has a four-man squad? We call that a fireteam here in the states.

[Pale Rider]

Most of our promotions were field. Between deaths and people having to leave the unit. Heck, the original Morrison went from Corporal to Lt.
However, the real question is how many years has passed since the Andromeda mission. James was 18 at that time. So if more time than real time he would be that age.

[Obi]

Happy NY everyone. Attrition does have that effect on rapid promotion!

[Pale Rider]

ADVANCEMENT

Advancement is directly linked to an individual’s performance in an MOS and development as a Marine. Each Marine is evaluated based on job performance, experience, and ability to apply newly learned skills. While promotion criteria rely heavily upon individual job performance, Marines are also in competition with others of the same rank in the same MOS. Promotion becomes increasingly competitive as Marines advance in rank. The normal time-in-grade requirements for promotion are as follows: Private to Private First Class, six months; Private First Class to Lance Corporal, eight months; Lance Corporal to Corporal, eight months; and Corporal to Sergeant, 24 months. Promotions above Sergeant to the staff non-commissioned officer (SNCO) ranks are determined by promotion boards.

The Meritorious Promotion System is used to recognize Marines who demonstrate outstanding job performance and professional competence. Marines recommended for meritorious promotion are carefully screened for accelerated advancement. Qualified enlisted Marines can compete for and be accepted into the officer corps through several different programs. Competition is keen, and only the best qualified Marines are accepted.

On average, at least in recent years, it takes about 10 years to get to Staff Sergeant(E-6), and then another 4-5 years to get to Gunnery Sergeant(E-7).

Advancement may well be faster in war-time, and in certain career specialisations. Promotion boards have a certain degree of flexibility in deciding promotions past E-4/E-5.

The basic culture is "Up or Out": you stay in as long as you are promotable, then you're out. The purpose of this is to ensure a high quality workforce in service, and to avoid stagnation at the higher paygrades.

So, if someone enlists at 18, they'll be pushing S/SGT at around 28, and Gy/SGT at around 35.

Quoted from: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sho ... p?t=372556

[Morse]

Didn't we go through a restart at the beginning of Gothic Serpent? Where we dropped everyone down to like Private and Corporal except Dugan who was acting sergeant? - I think we got too many NCO's as is, but Master Sergeant with us is kind of a heavy rank gap unless he's gonna be the new head... which isn't gonna be fun for him cus 'Morse' hates change (along with, you know, everything else)

[Pale Rider]

I really don't care if I am a buck private again. It is all good to me.

[maxvale76]

In the end; all of this is little more than academic interest in my part; since OF COURSE I'm going to play no matter what!

However, to beat the proverbial passed-away horse; based on the movie; I'd say that the typical USCM marine is both much older and spends much more time in grade than anyone in the modern US or Western nation's military of any branch. The USCM depicted in James Cameron's movie bears very little resemblance to the US Marine Corps of the 80s (or today); in my opinion. Regarding ranks/age; every actor (playing a Marine) in the movie was at least 25 when the filming was being done; so even if we give a 2-3 year range for combat and/or hard living making people look older than their years; that's STILL a bunch of 21-23 year old Privates and PFCs.

Even more; Apone is wearing the patch of an E-6 or E-7 (Staff Sergeant or Gunnery SGT); I can't quite remember; yet is listed in the script as simply SGT A. Apone; an E-5 rank. Everyone calls him "Sarge" (which is appropriate for an E-5); but this pretty much doesn't happen in the US Marine Corps for E-6s or better; NCOs of those ranks are called "Staff" or "Gunny"; not "Sarge".

Also; it's odd that NO ONE is an E3 and there are 5 E1s, 2 E2s, 3 E4s and 1 E5 or better; and 1 O1 or O2 (can't remember if Gorman is a Silver or a Gold Bar).

Anyway; I always took these facts to mean that the USCM of the 2170s works QUITE a bit different than the US (or any Western nation for that matter) military of the 20th/21st century; and little things like Hudson's comment ("....man, and I was getting short.....6 more weeks and out"); made me think the USCM was more like the Vietnam era US Army with draftees doing a set amount of time and somewhat suspect morale fighting unpopular/not talked about conflicts.

These are of course; just my opinions!

[Quinn]

Gorman is a butterbar. Minor, but just so you know.

[Nick]

The aliens movie is said to get much of its inspiration from the vietnam war. A low tech enemy vs guns bristling marines. The average age of the american soldier in vietnam was 27.

You also have to bear in mind that some babies born today have a life expectancy of almost 200 years! 25 might be the 18 in 2080...

//N

[Pale Rider]

Well, all I can say is let's just play. It doesn't matter if I am a buck private or LT. All I want to do is write.

[Nemo]

iirc Apone is refered to a couple of times as "Top", indicating a First Sergeant. First Sergeant (abbreviated 1stSgt) is one level below Sergeant Major and Master Gunnery Sergeant. It is equal in grade to Master Sergeant, although the two ranks have different responsibilities. A first sergeant has a command responsibility as a senior enlisted advisor, while master sergeants have technical responsibilities.

There is a Wiki page I found that states Apone was a Gunnery Sergeant. Either way, the USCM squad that went to Hadleys Hope was 1 LT, 1 Sgt (of an indetermined level of sergeantness), 3 corporals, 7 PFCs, 2 mission specific civilian advisors, an android and a partridge in a pear tree. Ok, maybe not the partridge bit.

[Morse]

Mmmmk, this is all going no where. Pale Rider's just looking for an answer here. And knowing Nick he'll work off of a certain level of preference with the writer - but Pale Rider probably doesn't care too much.

Here's what I say we go with.

Ignore the stuff that was said about him being 'younger', and put him at mid 30's (Closer to Pale Riders real age, which I personally find is easier for RPing anyway). As for rank, drop him down to Sergeant or Staff Sergeant - it's been years since Pale Rider was here so we could say he held brevet ranks previously when he was running the platoon.

For purposes of Structure I saw Quinn should have his rank moved up to Staff Sergeant or Gunnery Sergeant - That way we can keep working as we have.


- How does this work with the rest of you?

[maxvale76]

That sounds pretty good to me but ultimately it's Nick's call.

And I might be wrong; but I think the term "Top"; can also be used for the senior NCO (of SGT rank or better) who's present; in addition to the traditional First SGT of the unit; but maybe I've got that wrong.....

[Pale Rider]

Morse you hit the nail on the head. Just let me play! Also the reason I made the story up about why I came back was to give Nick the option to put me at any rank he wants. I think Quinn possibly wants to simply slide back into the Medic role only but I could be wrong based on his comments in another thread. Max, having all but my name signed to the enlistment paper with the United States Marines (for some reason a person with a previously broken legs is not really to enticing to them.) You are also correct. Top is usually used in reference to the TOP NCO available at that time.

As far as the age factor goes this is a basically a new group and it looks like the stories from the past are basically just that the past so I will gladly move Pale Rider to his 30's so as to accommodate his rank.
Dirk, Quinn, Apachetear, and now Jocke are the only ones who have role played characters with him previously. If you were to look back to the very first mission with Jocke and I he was a Corporal and I was a Lance Corporal. By the time Dirk and Quinn came around James was more of an NPC.